The Soapbox
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| Subject: I think you'd be on shaky ground to say that we "created" a permanent lower |
| Posted by: KaHOOnah on Tue Feb 21 2012 9:01:20 AM |
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Message:
class via the welfare state. Moynihan wrote pretty extensively on this
issue. The way we disburse welfare has fundamentally changed and people are now incentivized to actually work: the EITC and the Waking Work Pay, while largely redistributive, serve as effective deterrents to sitting at home and collecting checks and add to the national bottom line. But there are big problems with social mobility in this country that removing aid from poor families will only exacerbate. We ought to encourage, via public policy, for the poor among us to improve their lot. No one is giving anything away; everyone earns their keep. But Pell Grants are wildly popular and exclusively help the folks who need it most. Are you averse to that type of aid? What about SNAP? SCHIP? TANF? To be clear, I'm not trying to paint you into a corner, I'm really just trying to get a firm grasp on what you're actually saying. I tend to agree that the elderly are entirely too dependent on the state. I don't know how to fix that, though...other than removing folks from the payroll. I had an economics prof who said that Social Security wasn't for the elderly; rather, it was for their children. Private finances were being so sapped by children caring for their poor parents that it was more efficient for the government to force people to save for retirement in the future. Now that folks are living longer, you really have to increase what the gov't forces you to save and increase the age at which your benefits are disbursed. Either that, or do away with the program entirely. While it would sate my personal desire for more responsible personal actions, I know it would be disastrous public policy. |
| Current Thread: |
Reagan: Reagan and Clinton are Americans' favorite Presidents -- hooverville29 Sat Feb 18 2012 9:42:20 AM |
I think Reagan is legitimately among the top 3 of the 20th century. -- Galileo24 Sat Feb 18 2012 9:50:21 PM |
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FDR, far and away. TR. Ike. -- DanTheFan Sun Feb 19 2012 7:39:57 PM |
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FDR's greatness has been greatly exaggerated ** -- Abe Vigodas Head Mon Feb 20 2012 7:50:25 AM |
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You'll never win that argument. Two things are undeniably true, the victors -- Maupin233 Mon Feb 20 2012 1:17:27 PM |
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Not in the least. -- DanTheFan Mon Feb 20 2012 8:40:04 AM |
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The New Deal is the myth and Reagan's legacy includes winning the Cold War ** -- Faz d' Hoo Mon Feb 20 2012 9:08:44 AM |
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Reagan did not win the Cold War. -- DanTheFan Mon Feb 20 2012 11:52:36 AM |
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Explain? ** -- KaHOOnah Mon Feb 20 2012 9:41:47 AM |
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The myth is that the New Deal was a good thing for America -- Faz d' Hoo Mon Feb 20 2012 10:00:57 AM |
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I don't know what classes of people are totally dependent on the federal gov't.. -- KaHOOnah Mon Feb 20 2012 11:58:03 AM |
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Seniors for starters -- Faz d' Hoo Mon Feb 20 2012 3:29:06 PM |
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I think you'd be on shaky ground to say that we "created" a permanent lower -- KaHOOnah Tue Feb 21 2012 9:01:20 AM |
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Who did they depend on, pre-New Deal, say in 1927? -- southdenverhoo Mon Feb 20 2012 10:37:11 PM |
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Medicare wasn't part of the New Deal, and SS has greatly reduced poverty in -- WahooRQ Mon Feb 20 2012 5:14:25 PM |
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How is it a myth? The bigger myth is that the New Deal went against corporate -- Shenhoo Mon Feb 20 2012 9:25:51 AM |
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FDR helped to save capitalism. -- DanTheFan Mon Feb 20 2012 12:03:10 PM |
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Ike, Truman, Reagan ** -- Hoogle.com Sun Feb 19 2012 7:01:44 PM |
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I'll never be able to forgive Clinton -- Faz d' Hoo Sat Feb 18 2012 11:58:55 PM |
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Absurd hyperbole. ** -- OstHoo Sun Feb 19 2012 10:54:05 PM |
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Not just that but the lack of seriousness place on.. -- GoochlandHoo Sun Feb 19 2012 2:30:03 PM |
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Are you kidding?.. -- Galileo24 Sun Feb 19 2012 2:41:38 PM |
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You prove my point. Instead of doing something.. -- GoochlandHoo Sun Feb 19 2012 4:17:50 PM |
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Two replies. One, do you remember Bush scoffing about how Clinton -- Galileo24 Sun Feb 19 2012 5:31:04 PM |
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G24, I'm not here trying to compare Bush to Clinton -- GoochlandHoo Sun Feb 19 2012 5:59:07 PM |
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You're reading too much into my comments. The point is that -- Galileo24 Sun Feb 19 2012 7:58:20 PM |
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So WJC's politcal enemies let sex interfere with their judgement. -- WaxHoo Sun Feb 19 2012 4:55:00 PM |
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Yes some did. -- GoochlandHoo Sun Feb 19 2012 5:03:29 PM |
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I agree and would add another thing for which Clinton's behavior may be faulted -- Chuck Taylor Sun Feb 19 2012 11:16:42 AM |
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That will always be a mark against Clinton. -- DanTheFan Sun Feb 19 2012 9:48:53 AM |
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Nope ** -- turk Sun Feb 19 2012 12:52:44 PM |
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His behavior is certainly his fault...but spending a year on a stained dress and -- WahooRQ Sun Feb 19 2012 9:40:18 AM |
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Right on all points. ** -- HoosWillWin Sun Feb 19 2012 4:52:21 PM |
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Such a waste of time, energy, money. -- Capital City Hoo Sun Feb 19 2012 2:17:28 PM |
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Yep ** -- turk Sun Feb 19 2012 12:54:02 PM |
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What part of "he lied under oath" do you not understand? ** -- Texas Hoo Sun Feb 19 2012 10:59:18 AM |
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Again, the whole thing was a waste of time -- Capital City Hoo Sun Feb 19 2012 5:07:26 PM |
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The part about making a "material false statement," which the Repubs didn't have -- WahooRQ Sun Feb 19 2012 12:12:11 PM |
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Well, he didn't help himself by denying it for a very long time... -- GoochlandHoo Sun Feb 19 2012 4:24:43 PM |
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If Clinton had one ounce of integrity, he would have resigned and spared the -- Hokie5150 Sun Feb 19 2012 1:37:06 PM |
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Guessing this is TIC ** -- Capital City Hoo Sun Feb 19 2012 6:28:11 PM |
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I wish they had moved to impeach Bush, with all the " war crime" loose talk -- Texas Hoo Sun Feb 19 2012 12:36:12 PM |
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Successful sociopath? where is ted bundy when we need him? ** -- champthehoo Sun Feb 19 2012 10:05:03 AM |
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Yup. True. -- Abe Vigodas Head Sun Feb 19 2012 9:47:50 AM |
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If liberal Democrats had moved forward with some lame impeachment of Bush, I -- WahooRQ Sun Feb 19 2012 9:58:52 AM |
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You have to believe that things occurred under W -- Capital City Hoo Sun Feb 19 2012 2:25:29 PM |
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We had orchestrated torture in Vietnam under Johnson but nowhere near the -- HooBauer Sun Feb 19 2012 11:10:42 AM |
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You will of course be kind enough to provide examples of torture in Viet Nam.... -- Chuck Taylor Sun Feb 19 2012 12:30:30 PM |
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No guidance documented guidance was provided in Vietnam by the administration to -- HooBauer Sun Feb 19 2012 3:47:00 PM |
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So in other words there was no "orchestrated torture in Viet Nam under Johnson"? -- Chuck Taylor Sun Feb 19 2012 4:07:31 PM |
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Oh, Wikileaks on Vietnam covert activity and intelligence -- HooBauer Sun Feb 19 2012 3:49:27 PM |
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There were shoddy legal memos written by LBJ administration officials saying -- WahooRQ Sun Feb 19 2012 11:31:52 AM |
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I'll have to take your word for that -- Abe Vigodas Head Sun Feb 19 2012 10:15:11 AM |
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Like when they impeached Andrew Johnson? -- NaturalMysticHoo Sun Feb 19 2012 9:55:05 AM |
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Qualifier: favorites of the past four decades. Makes sense. I'm not sure a lot -- Seattle 'Hoo Sat Feb 18 2012 4:53:12 PM |
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They were both good. -- Shenhoo Sat Feb 18 2012 10:55:17 AM |
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GWB showed the most improvement. That will continue. -- PhillyHoo Sat Feb 18 2012 11:10:52 AM |
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Pretty much everything he he/ the government did from the moment -- 111Balz Sun Feb 19 2012 11:23:35 AM |
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They give F+ in Bush school? He was awful. -- Shenhoo Sat Feb 18 2012 9:22:27 PM |
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In fairness, his initial handling of 9/11 seemed to be very good. -- Galileo24 Sat Feb 18 2012 9:48:27 PM |
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Perhaps, but I'm still not sitting here and saying -- Faz d' Hoo Sat Feb 18 2012 11:25:42 PM |
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I am. No Bush, no Obama. No Bush, no invasion of Iraq. -- Galileo24 Sun Feb 19 2012 8:20:20 AM |
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No Bush Tax Cuts and no war. Maybe even no 9-11, as I'm sure the Gore -- WahooRQ Sun Feb 19 2012 9:47:21 AM |
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I think 9/11 would have happened. I believe the suspicion at the time -- Galileo24 Sun Feb 19 2012 12:16:29 PM |
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+1. Take the view that 9/11 was inevitable in some sense. -- Maupin233 Mon Feb 20 2012 1:45:00 PM |
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I am fair. Probably generous. ** -- Shenhoo Sat Feb 18 2012 11:02:45 PM |
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He was, is and always will be correctly viewed as a clown. ** -- NaturalMysticHoo Sat Feb 18 2012 7:54:40 PM |
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Ummm...HillaryCare was before the '94 Congress. Since you like their -- HooBear Sat Feb 18 2012 12:55:01 PM |
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If that's what you call improvement, ugh!! If not for daddy Bush, he would -- Galileo24 Sat Feb 18 2012 11:40:13 AM |
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Yeah right. If that's so why has the current president kept GWBs foreign -- HooBauer Sat Feb 18 2012 4:55:15 PM |
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What giveaway policies has Obama doubled and tripled? And as for foreign policy, -- Seattle 'Hoo Sat Feb 18 2012 7:45:24 PM |
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Don't screw up the talking point. ** -- Galileo24 Sun Feb 19 2012 9:02:16 AM |
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Just a point to counter your own talking points. No president in our -- HooBauer Sun Feb 19 2012 9:54:41 AM |
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My talking points? Don't rewrite history. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 -- Galileo24 Sun Feb 19 2012 10:26:39 AM |
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If I'm rewriting history, you're blindly speculating. Of course 9/11 had -- HooBauer Sun Feb 19 2012 11:16:44 AM |
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Yes they used 9/11 to launch an otherwise unrelated war that they -- 111Balz Sun Feb 19 2012 2:59:38 PM |
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Umm, I think you need to read what you posted and try it again. -- Galileo24 Sun Feb 19 2012 12:19:39 PM |
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I don't think that's true. -- DanTheFan Sat Feb 18 2012 6:52:19 PM |
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I didn't realize you thought Obama was a great POTUS. Frankly, I don't. -- Galileo24 Sat Feb 18 2012 6:47:06 PM |
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If and when there is a US demise, it will be the result of the societal issues.. -- PhillyHoo Sat Feb 18 2012 1:09:37 PM |
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Just a little over the top? ** -- Capital City Hoo Sat Feb 18 2012 10:34:11 PM |
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9/11, the deficit, dogs and cats living together, is all the fault of you -- Galileo24 Sun Feb 19 2012 8:22:55 AM |
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You've lost it. ** -- NaturalMysticHoo Sat Feb 18 2012 7:55:34 PM |
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You sir, live in a different world where Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell dwell. -- Galileo24 Sat Feb 18 2012 6:49:01 PM |
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How is it class warfare to suggest that giving away massive tax breaks -- HooBear Sat Feb 18 2012 3:41:03 PM |
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Here's a somewhat related article from Britain -- NJHoo Sat Feb 18 2012 3:58:35 PM |
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Wow, that's really alternate reality territory. ** -- WahooRQ Sat Feb 18 2012 3:12:16 PM |
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Truly scary stuff. ** -- Chuck Taylor Sat Feb 18 2012 2:19:28 PM |
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Maybe, but with the greatest avoidable strategic blunder -- HoosWillWin Sat Feb 18 2012 11:17:49 AM |
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You have no idea whether or not it is a strategic blunder -- HooBauer Sat Feb 18 2012 4:58:10 PM |
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Hmmm. Spend trillions and lose hundreds of thousands of lives, when -- HoosWillWin Sun Feb 19 2012 11:16:49 AM |
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You continue to associate cost with strategy. Your only point is the -- HooBauer Sun Feb 19 2012 11:27:32 AM |
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The Arab Spring (and the Chinese and Iranian versions) are inevitable -- HoosWillWin Sun Feb 19 2012 4:48:32 PM |
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You have to consider cost in your strategy. What good does it to win -- Galileo24 Sun Feb 19 2012 3:01:13 PM |
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The war MAY (and that's a big "may") leave IRAQ better off in the long run. -- WahooRQ Sun Feb 19 2012 9:36:29 AM |
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You apparently think it was not? Look, I hope to God it was not, but please tell -- Seattle 'Hoo Sat Feb 18 2012 7:35:51 PM |
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Excellent POTW ** -- NJHoo Sat Feb 18 2012 8:32:48 PM |
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I can believe that ** -- DAMHoo Sat Feb 18 2012 9:51:20 AM |
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Gallup, that is ** -- hooverville29 Sat Feb 18 2012 9:42:51 AM |
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LOL. The call is coming from beyond the graaaaave! ** -- Darkstar Sat Feb 18 2012 10:06:20 AM |
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